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Post by Thr33XWA on Feb 5, 2011 21:02:48 GMT -5
Okay, so after further research, I've decided that Leverage Pin is in fact not going to be used here in the XWA. As could be seen in the T4 show, it did weigh into it's fair share of outcomes, but it was "tastefully done" by the AI. However, in recent tests, I just got finished running 10 straight simmed matches, and guess how many were finished by Leverage Pin users?
10.
That is way too much for my taste right there. The probability of it's use is extremely high, and it's effective rate of use is pretty high too. I'm all for creating "high drama" in a match, but it's simply too sure-fire, and it stands to take more away from the fed than give when 50%-60% of a card is decided by Leverage Pin, so it's hereby snubbed.
That being said, you will not have to submit a substitute ability if you were using it. If you wish to you can, but I've already re-done ability lists to reflect the CAW itself. Some heel characters who hadn't had Dirty Pin now do as example, or Ring Escape, or basically any ability outside of Leverage and Fired Up has been swapped. I will put up a list to reflect the changes, so if anyone wants a further change they can do so.
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Post by Lilith on Feb 5, 2011 21:13:57 GMT -5
Yikes. 10 for 10. Yeah, it's one thing to say 6 out of 10, a majority. But a full blown 100% is definitely too far.
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Post by Thr33XWA on Feb 5, 2011 22:49:06 GMT -5
I hate the AI. Have I ever mentioned that? lol
Going in the reverse now, I've simmed a series of matches without Leverage Pin as an option, and they're dragging out heavily. As in, a CAW actually hits their finisher, but refuses to go for a pinfall, even if the opponent is damaged enough to be pinned.
Ugh.
It's like damned if you, damned if you don't. I think we might be able to work around the use of the Leverage Pin afterall, give that the alternative is...dumb.
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Post by Kenji Katana on Feb 5, 2011 22:57:01 GMT -5
The A.I is stupid period. Throws them into the ropes & stands there & does nothing. Big guys constantly do top rope moves (Simming a match w/ big show once It happened)
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Post by Jamie Fury on Feb 5, 2011 22:59:41 GMT -5
I think I'd rather have a sure-fire result of a match than have you pulling your hair out over having to find a way to balance the game's not so intelligent intelligence. We can work with it.  |
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Post by Lilith on Feb 5, 2011 23:10:07 GMT -5
Dunno. Watching him stress over it IS kind of amusing... lmao  No but I agree. It is true [did some testing of my own] that sometimes the AI won't use it period. But the risk of it dictating title matches, number one contender ships, king of the ring styled match set ups is too high. It indeed adds realism, but at the risk of luck playing too big of a factor. In reality luck is a use in wrestling, but when was the last time you saw an entire PPV won by small packages. Or ten title matches back to back end in a 4 time reversed cradle pin in which the one who reversed it first always wins? It's just not likely. Plus it may lead to people get frustrated over the result of a leverage pin enough to start calling every loss of their characters a "fluke" IC. Sure, some heels will do this to an extent anyway lol But they usually get proven wrong. In this case, the game would vilify the situation and prove them right. |
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Post by Thr33XWA on Feb 5, 2011 23:48:47 GMT -5
A possibility would be to make KO a regular method of victory, since I can't rely on the AI to make pinfall when it should logically do it. That might offset everything. I'll keep you posted.
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Post by Kenji Katana on Feb 5, 2011 23:54:55 GMT -5
A possibility would be to make KO a regular method of victory, since I can't rely on the AI to make pinfall when it should logically do it. That might offset everything. I'll keep you posted. That's the '187 effect' |
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Post by Thr33XWA on Feb 6, 2011 3:31:52 GMT -5
Update: KOs don't happen too often do they? Alright, there's going to need to be some cosmetic changes to keep the action flowing at a certain pace. Some things I've tweaked:
-Decreased countering of strikes and ground moves
-Set the ring out count to 5, so they get back in the ring at 2 most times
-Those who use Struggle Submissions as Finishers, I've swapped them with a signature. Reason being, stupid AI will not hold a submission move for some reason past the "red" phase.
-Leverage Pin will indeed be unused
-KO will be on for all singles and 3-person matches, possibly all matches in general
As of right now I'm checking to see whether Resiliency is needed as well. I want long matches, but at the same time, Resiliency might also be the reason the AI doesn't pin after finishers, because it doesn't really do anything until a considerable amount of damage is done. That takes longer with Resiliency than without. Stay tuned for more updates.
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Post by Michael Embers on Feb 6, 2011 8:08:31 GMT -5
In my experience a match won't end in KO after just one finisher. I simmed a cage match that could only end by KO and it took I think 2 or 3 finishers to get the KO.
As for the AI. The sliders are really touchy this time around. If you have counters set too high, you see Leverage pin is used A LOT. If you have them set too low, you get shorter matches and typically people don't like 5 minute matches anymore.
The sliders I use for personal use typically have short matches, but the AI pins after finishers and Leverage Pin didn't decide every match.
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Post by Lilith on Feb 6, 2011 9:32:09 GMT -5
Yeesh lol Well to be honest I was going to change Lil's SS finisher, but because in my testing about 90% of the time a SS finisher is kind of a guaranteed win. I don't know the mega difference in our sliders but lol I do think the ring out count at 5 may be a bad idea. I get the whole get them in quicker thing, but that only counts for when the AI is up. If someone is layed out by interference or another char's finisher outside of the ring, it's a instant loss for them. They ain't getting up in 3 seconds and then sliding into the ring lol As for Resi; I do think having it would be a good idea as it pretty much always leads to longer matches. But that's just my opinion. I've never expressly tested it's resolve as opposed to other abilities. As for noticing if a pin is always enacted or not, like I said I haven't done extensive testing into that factor. I don't see a huge problem with KOs aside from the unusually spammy nature of the AI this year. I count two matches out of the 4 Diamond ones at the Tribute in which the AI of random chars, ended up for some reason, spamming the same attack over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over -- You get the point. In home testing, this still occurred every now and then regardless of the character. If the AI spams a spinning back kick 10 times in a row, then follows up with their actual standing strike combo, when the opponent gets up groggy all the spammy AI has to do is nail a heavy strike or a certain kind of groggy grapple and it's an instant KO if the match has been going longer than like 5 minutes. That's like...  |
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Post by Kenji Katana on Feb 6, 2011 9:41:37 GMT -5
Agreed with Lil. Maybe we should leave it 10? Even in WWE they wait until the count is almost up to get back in the ring.
& 3X, I'm gonna do some simming on my 360 with your settings, to see if I get the same results you did.
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Post by Michael Embers on Feb 6, 2011 10:46:08 GMT -5
I've seen the lack of pins after a finisher. The guys I simmed when I used XWA's sliders would hit their finisher and then lift the guy back up for more moves.
Never had the leverage pin problem though. My guys with leverage pin still typically lost to my guys with a power moveset or greco-roman movesets.
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Post by Thr33XWA on Feb 6, 2011 13:08:27 GMT -5
Normally, I get a system by which I want the game to handle matches down pat in a very short amount of time. But as I continue to test, I figure I might as well test other people's settings as well. I'm going to compare how other people's styles of simulation go with the one I've been using. From the default setting it's 10 ticks either way to Low or High, so just tell me how many ticks you've set yours. EXAMPLE: If you set it five ticks to the left, say 5 LOW. 2 ticks to the right, 2 HIGH. Let me get that for the AI Balancing and the Game Balancing. Thanks. |
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Post by Michael Embers on Feb 6, 2011 15:02:10 GMT -5
A.I. Reversal Balancing
7 Low
5 Low
7 Low
5 Low
0
3 Low
Damage Balancing
0
2 High
Gameplay Balancing
9 Low
8 Low
9 Low
8 Low
0
0
8 Low
6 Low
9 Low
7 Low
Credit to Genesis for the sliders since these were what he came up with. I just use them as well with XWA's stat settings.
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