Post by hc on Aug 7, 2009 1:40:00 GMT -5
We recently managed to sit down and chat with Overload superstar and wrestling legend Cody Black. In this interview Cody talks about the state of affairs in XWA, the next wave of talent bursting into the business and who he thinks might be the greatest superstar you've never heard of.
DotNet: It's been a long time since we've heard from you in an official capacity. You haven't been around on TV a lot either.
I'm an old man. *laughs* I've gotta pick my appearances wisely.
DotNet: For those people who've been under a rock the last few years, how long have you been in wrestling?
The last few years? *laughs* They'd have to have been in a coma. I made my debut in the ring back in 1994. 15 years I've been doin' this. Didn't think I'd last this long the way things where early on in my career.
DN: How were they?
C'mon. The wrestling business back in the mid-90s? It was all about show, on TV and behind the scenes. A lot of the outlets available to these young guys these days were non-existent back then. Everyone was on somethin'. If you weren't shootin' it up, you were snortin' it. And I fell victim to it. Drug addiction damn near cost me my life, let alone my career.
DN: How long have you been clean?
10 years, clean & sober. It's sad that it took me coughin' up my own blood in a hotel room to realize somethin' had to change. Thank god Matt Tryton heard me and busted down the door. I wouldn't be sittin' here.
DN: Matt Tryton is of course the father of Tommy Tryton, and for a long time was a friend and rival of yours through the 90's. Tell us about your relationship.
Me and Matt broke into the business together. We were both a pair of Cali-boys lookin' to make it big. Unlike his boy Tommy, Matt wasn't all that imposing as far as size. But he was a surgical tactician. You here the phrase coined a lot "Ring General." Matt Tryton was a Ring Admiral. You knew you were in for a long night of work against him, because the very ring was his weapon. I've still got aches in my back and neck that belong to Matt. He's like a brother to me. We still stay in contact to this day.
DN: Also noted is the deep history you have with the Troy family. Tell us how that all came about.
2001 was the year I was introduced to Charles & Paul. (Pollox & Kaster) We were all venturing into a new company from our original places of work. The company was the Midwest Championship Wrestling League (MCWL). The bookers thought it'd be a good idea to have us form up a stable of at the time up and coming wrestlers to challenge the established vets, so into the mix was added John Trudueax (Johnny Aces) and the Revolution X was formed. It was a damn good time, but we were all still young. Only about 4-5 years in the business. All of us on the verge of becoming mega stars. So naturally we all ended up having our differences. So by 2003, the band officially broke up with me and John parted ways from Charles and Paul. I had mutual respect for Paul, but Charles was a different story. He was a hot headed glory hog. We didn't see eye to eye at all behind the scenes. We still don't. Especially when their sister Helena came to me to help her out when she was having her problems with them. There's wounds there that haven't healed between us all, and I'm not holding my breath on it either.
DN: Let's fast forward to 2005. MCWL gets absorbed into VCW. Your career was at a crossroads. Where was your mindset?
I'll tell you where it wasn't. Wrestling. Me and my wife had just had out 2nd child. I'd been on the road non-stop since 2001. I was ready to hang 'em up then and their. But when I'd heard that Charles had said some less then encouraging things about me during the transition to VCW, I said I had to finally shut his mouth. That eventually lead to our 1st and to this date only one on one in 2006. A match that I won. I'd just wanted to beat him and show the world who was the better man between us, but the fans had other plans. They wanted me to stay. So did VCW brass. So I decided I'd go things one more time. They did everything in their power to keep Charles and I away from each other though. But I know it's sittin' in the back of his head. It's only a matter of time before he comes lookin' for his payback. And whenever that day comes, I'll be ready for it.
DN: Then comes 2008. VCW is facing steady decline. Smaller shows, wrestlers being let go. Turmoil in the front office. And then you get a call from Rodolphe Gallas...
And I was pretty shocked that I did. I mean, everyone saw how fast XWA rose to prominence in 2007. Here's this upstart company built from the financial demise of another, bringing with a new vision on what Pro-Wrestling should be. Bending rules. Breaking stereotypes. It was fun to watch. But when Mr. Gallas called me and actually offered me a job I had to take a step back and let it sink in a bit. I mean, despite being a vet of over 10 years, I'd be coming into a company dominated by younger talent who most likely know nothing about anything but what hovers in their own lil' worlds. I'd be startin' over again. But in a way, I liked that idea. The fact that for the 1st time in my career I wouldn't be "The Guy". Sometimes you just wanna compete. Not have to worry about being under the microscope. Not have to do the corporate song and dance that main eventers have to do. So I took it. Didn't hurt that XWA at the time was on a hiring spree at the time. Managed to snatch up a couple of us from VCW and a few other guys from other places as well.
DN: I guess that makes the transition easier as well. So you get to XWA, and you come to find out there are guys on roster who know who you are. One of them being Bryan Jasta...
And that's a fate I wish on no man. Let me go on record right here in saying that in all the years I've been in wrestling, I have never...ever...been beat down worse then the three beatins' Jasta gave me in 2008. And I'd had some ass whoopins' administered to me in the past. Jasta I think is without a doubt the best pound for pound wrestler on the planet. And yea, I know you have a lot of guys running around talkin' about how great they are, especially in this company. But that's the scary part. He doesn't. You'll never hear him talk about being the man. He'll just get in the ring and pick you apart at an atomic level. You can't train the kind of skill he has. It's born. They nicknamed him "The Spartan" because of his Greek heritage, but I think it goes deeper. He's a born warrior. If he was born back in the days of Old Sparta, He'd be the guy standing in front of King Leonidas on the battlefield. Every person on the Earth was put here for a reason. Bryan Jasta's reason for living is to hurt people.
DN: It sounds like you have a lot of respect for him.
I have a lot of respect for the true warriors of the business. The guys who aren't about flash, glitz and glamor. All the show boating and one-upsmanship. I survived it in the 90's, I'd rather not have to do it again this late in my career. That's why I applaud guys like Jasta, and Adam Devlin, Kris Cade and so on. Guys who are bridging the gap and making wrestling into more of a combat sport then sports entertainment. That's the next evolution I believe wrestling needs to extend it's boundaries. You see it in Japan a lot, Shoot Wrestling. But these guys are bringing that Shoot Style to the US, and the rest of the business is still trying to catch up. Take a look at that GrandSlan Title match. Yea, Sylk hit his offense, but Cade dictated the pace of the fight, because to a man like him it's not a match, it's a fight. These guys aren't just guys who went to wrestling schools, they're bonafide athletes. Trained in all sorts of combat arts, be it Ju-Jitsu, Karate, Sambo, Lier Drit, whatever. They represent a change in the business I think is long overdue.
DN: So what's your take on the new crop of talent that presently find themselves headlining in XWA, as well as across the industry.
I think they've all personally got a long way to go. There's a difference between being a great wrestler and a wrestling great. There are a lot of great wrestlers in the sport today. But wrestling greats? Few and far between. When I think of wrestling greats, I think of names like Osh Vaughn, a man who's paved the way for a lot of innovation. Or Dru Nedermeyer, who literally changed what it meant to be a Super Heavyweight in the business. Or Ashley Diamond, who showed the world that being the greatest female wrestler alive doesn't mean coming to the ring in fancy ass gear with your business hangin' out. Those are wrestling. Two of them are already hall of famers, and Ashley's destined to be one without a doubt. Are there others who have that potential? Sure there is. But before that happens they need to realize they're not bigger then the business. You don't make the business, the business makes you. To many of these young guys and girls think because they're in the show it gives them a free pass. It doesn't. Try lasting 15 years in the business. I'll be frank, there's a lot of people here in XWA and abroad that in 2-3 years will be total afterthoughts. Some of them are main eventers right now. But what happens when someone comes along and pushes them out of their spot? Then what. The current generation of talent need to realize that they won't be "current" for long. When that happens, you've got two options. Make like us older guys have and adapt, or get pushed out of the business. You might be in the big matches now, but that luxury doesn't last forever.
DN: Interesting point of view, Cody.
I've been around to long to not know the way things go. And I'm still in the business because I do.
DN: So if you had to pick one superstar presently in XWA you feel will be the breakout megastar for this generation of talent, who would he or she be, and why?
That would surprise you, because he's only just recently joined XWA. But I've had the privilege of seeing him work in the indies, and that man is Milo Miller. There's a lot of people I could have picked, by why I pick Milo is because with all the talent he has...all that god given skill and athleticism, He's still learning. I recently had the honor of helping out in The Monster's Den, Dru's Gym in Cleveland, and Milo spent a few months there before he made his official debut in XWA. Milo's like a sponge. He just soaks up all of the information you give him so quickly. Like Jasta, Devlin and Cade, he's got a martial arts background, but unlike those three who's skill is raw and imposing, Milo's like...a calm river current more then a tsunami. That's scary. Guys like him, Tommy, Finesse and Dan Ripley are a sign of the way the sport is changing as well. They're all big, physical guys that move like crusierweights. Seeing them do the stuff they do is amazing. I mean, Ripley's what? 6'6"? 240...245lbs? And he's doing Guillotine Legdrops from the top rope halfway across the ring. Finesse is damn near 300lbs and he's doing springboard clotheslines. Nothing like how it was when I was their age. But of that whole crop, I think Milo's got the most untapped potential, because he's still not content with being where he is presently in his skill.
DN: You said you were recently at Dru Nedermeyer's Monster's Den Gym. What's the experience like?
Different. I mean, when I cam up you had to work out in seedy little dives or the weight rooms of whatever venue you were working. But these days there's gyms all over the place. I think it's great because it gives more availability to those out there who do want to become Pro-Wrestlers, or Mixed Martial Artists. That's where Dru's gym is different, because it's "Monster's Den Combat Sports". He's opened a place that caters to the entire gambit of combat sports. A place where you can see guys training to be Pro-Wrestlers training side by side with guys looking to become Mixed Martial Artists. So in a way, he's literally creating a brand new style of fighter. One who can transition to both sports flawlessly. And the gym itself is incredible. State of the art equipment all over the place. A full size Wrestling Ring, Boxing Ring AND Octagon. If my boys ever decide to follow in Daddy's footsteps, I know where I'll be sending them.
DN: So where are things head for Cody Black? Rumblings around the net say that you may have wrestled your last match.
I won't go that far, but I will say I'm nearing that match. There comes a time where you have to step back and look at where you've been, where you are, and where you're headed. I'll be 39 in 2010. When I wrestled my 1st match I'd just turned 24. 15 years is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time, bro. And I always said from the moment I shook my addiction that I would not be that wrestler still competing at 40 just to cling on to the glory days. I've had a great career. Met a lot of people along the way. I've been as high as success can take you and been at rock bottom. More then a lot of these young guys will ever have. Am I done yet? No. But will I be soon? Yes. I wanna pass on my knowledge to the next generation...or at least the ones not so full of themselves that they think they don't need it. There's a few guys I wanna face before I call it career as well. One more match with Jasta. One more match with Charles. One more match with Ripley. A match against Simon Fierhart. A couple other guys as well. But...I can say as I sit here right now that 2010 will more then likely be the fairwell tour of "The King Of Rock."
DN: And it'd be the fairwell of a storied and memorable career. We want to thank you again for taking this time to speak to us.
My pleasure.
DotNet: It's been a long time since we've heard from you in an official capacity. You haven't been around on TV a lot either.
I'm an old man. *laughs* I've gotta pick my appearances wisely.
DotNet: For those people who've been under a rock the last few years, how long have you been in wrestling?
The last few years? *laughs* They'd have to have been in a coma. I made my debut in the ring back in 1994. 15 years I've been doin' this. Didn't think I'd last this long the way things where early on in my career.
DN: How were they?
C'mon. The wrestling business back in the mid-90s? It was all about show, on TV and behind the scenes. A lot of the outlets available to these young guys these days were non-existent back then. Everyone was on somethin'. If you weren't shootin' it up, you were snortin' it. And I fell victim to it. Drug addiction damn near cost me my life, let alone my career.
DN: How long have you been clean?
10 years, clean & sober. It's sad that it took me coughin' up my own blood in a hotel room to realize somethin' had to change. Thank god Matt Tryton heard me and busted down the door. I wouldn't be sittin' here.
DN: Matt Tryton is of course the father of Tommy Tryton, and for a long time was a friend and rival of yours through the 90's. Tell us about your relationship.
Me and Matt broke into the business together. We were both a pair of Cali-boys lookin' to make it big. Unlike his boy Tommy, Matt wasn't all that imposing as far as size. But he was a surgical tactician. You here the phrase coined a lot "Ring General." Matt Tryton was a Ring Admiral. You knew you were in for a long night of work against him, because the very ring was his weapon. I've still got aches in my back and neck that belong to Matt. He's like a brother to me. We still stay in contact to this day.
DN: Also noted is the deep history you have with the Troy family. Tell us how that all came about.
2001 was the year I was introduced to Charles & Paul. (Pollox & Kaster) We were all venturing into a new company from our original places of work. The company was the Midwest Championship Wrestling League (MCWL). The bookers thought it'd be a good idea to have us form up a stable of at the time up and coming wrestlers to challenge the established vets, so into the mix was added John Trudueax (Johnny Aces) and the Revolution X was formed. It was a damn good time, but we were all still young. Only about 4-5 years in the business. All of us on the verge of becoming mega stars. So naturally we all ended up having our differences. So by 2003, the band officially broke up with me and John parted ways from Charles and Paul. I had mutual respect for Paul, but Charles was a different story. He was a hot headed glory hog. We didn't see eye to eye at all behind the scenes. We still don't. Especially when their sister Helena came to me to help her out when she was having her problems with them. There's wounds there that haven't healed between us all, and I'm not holding my breath on it either.
DN: Let's fast forward to 2005. MCWL gets absorbed into VCW. Your career was at a crossroads. Where was your mindset?
I'll tell you where it wasn't. Wrestling. Me and my wife had just had out 2nd child. I'd been on the road non-stop since 2001. I was ready to hang 'em up then and their. But when I'd heard that Charles had said some less then encouraging things about me during the transition to VCW, I said I had to finally shut his mouth. That eventually lead to our 1st and to this date only one on one in 2006. A match that I won. I'd just wanted to beat him and show the world who was the better man between us, but the fans had other plans. They wanted me to stay. So did VCW brass. So I decided I'd go things one more time. They did everything in their power to keep Charles and I away from each other though. But I know it's sittin' in the back of his head. It's only a matter of time before he comes lookin' for his payback. And whenever that day comes, I'll be ready for it.
DN: Then comes 2008. VCW is facing steady decline. Smaller shows, wrestlers being let go. Turmoil in the front office. And then you get a call from Rodolphe Gallas...
And I was pretty shocked that I did. I mean, everyone saw how fast XWA rose to prominence in 2007. Here's this upstart company built from the financial demise of another, bringing with a new vision on what Pro-Wrestling should be. Bending rules. Breaking stereotypes. It was fun to watch. But when Mr. Gallas called me and actually offered me a job I had to take a step back and let it sink in a bit. I mean, despite being a vet of over 10 years, I'd be coming into a company dominated by younger talent who most likely know nothing about anything but what hovers in their own lil' worlds. I'd be startin' over again. But in a way, I liked that idea. The fact that for the 1st time in my career I wouldn't be "The Guy". Sometimes you just wanna compete. Not have to worry about being under the microscope. Not have to do the corporate song and dance that main eventers have to do. So I took it. Didn't hurt that XWA at the time was on a hiring spree at the time. Managed to snatch up a couple of us from VCW and a few other guys from other places as well.
DN: I guess that makes the transition easier as well. So you get to XWA, and you come to find out there are guys on roster who know who you are. One of them being Bryan Jasta...
And that's a fate I wish on no man. Let me go on record right here in saying that in all the years I've been in wrestling, I have never...ever...been beat down worse then the three beatins' Jasta gave me in 2008. And I'd had some ass whoopins' administered to me in the past. Jasta I think is without a doubt the best pound for pound wrestler on the planet. And yea, I know you have a lot of guys running around talkin' about how great they are, especially in this company. But that's the scary part. He doesn't. You'll never hear him talk about being the man. He'll just get in the ring and pick you apart at an atomic level. You can't train the kind of skill he has. It's born. They nicknamed him "The Spartan" because of his Greek heritage, but I think it goes deeper. He's a born warrior. If he was born back in the days of Old Sparta, He'd be the guy standing in front of King Leonidas on the battlefield. Every person on the Earth was put here for a reason. Bryan Jasta's reason for living is to hurt people.
DN: It sounds like you have a lot of respect for him.
I have a lot of respect for the true warriors of the business. The guys who aren't about flash, glitz and glamor. All the show boating and one-upsmanship. I survived it in the 90's, I'd rather not have to do it again this late in my career. That's why I applaud guys like Jasta, and Adam Devlin, Kris Cade and so on. Guys who are bridging the gap and making wrestling into more of a combat sport then sports entertainment. That's the next evolution I believe wrestling needs to extend it's boundaries. You see it in Japan a lot, Shoot Wrestling. But these guys are bringing that Shoot Style to the US, and the rest of the business is still trying to catch up. Take a look at that GrandSlan Title match. Yea, Sylk hit his offense, but Cade dictated the pace of the fight, because to a man like him it's not a match, it's a fight. These guys aren't just guys who went to wrestling schools, they're bonafide athletes. Trained in all sorts of combat arts, be it Ju-Jitsu, Karate, Sambo, Lier Drit, whatever. They represent a change in the business I think is long overdue.
DN: So what's your take on the new crop of talent that presently find themselves headlining in XWA, as well as across the industry.
I think they've all personally got a long way to go. There's a difference between being a great wrestler and a wrestling great. There are a lot of great wrestlers in the sport today. But wrestling greats? Few and far between. When I think of wrestling greats, I think of names like Osh Vaughn, a man who's paved the way for a lot of innovation. Or Dru Nedermeyer, who literally changed what it meant to be a Super Heavyweight in the business. Or Ashley Diamond, who showed the world that being the greatest female wrestler alive doesn't mean coming to the ring in fancy ass gear with your business hangin' out. Those are wrestling. Two of them are already hall of famers, and Ashley's destined to be one without a doubt. Are there others who have that potential? Sure there is. But before that happens they need to realize they're not bigger then the business. You don't make the business, the business makes you. To many of these young guys and girls think because they're in the show it gives them a free pass. It doesn't. Try lasting 15 years in the business. I'll be frank, there's a lot of people here in XWA and abroad that in 2-3 years will be total afterthoughts. Some of them are main eventers right now. But what happens when someone comes along and pushes them out of their spot? Then what. The current generation of talent need to realize that they won't be "current" for long. When that happens, you've got two options. Make like us older guys have and adapt, or get pushed out of the business. You might be in the big matches now, but that luxury doesn't last forever.
DN: Interesting point of view, Cody.
I've been around to long to not know the way things go. And I'm still in the business because I do.
DN: So if you had to pick one superstar presently in XWA you feel will be the breakout megastar for this generation of talent, who would he or she be, and why?
That would surprise you, because he's only just recently joined XWA. But I've had the privilege of seeing him work in the indies, and that man is Milo Miller. There's a lot of people I could have picked, by why I pick Milo is because with all the talent he has...all that god given skill and athleticism, He's still learning. I recently had the honor of helping out in The Monster's Den, Dru's Gym in Cleveland, and Milo spent a few months there before he made his official debut in XWA. Milo's like a sponge. He just soaks up all of the information you give him so quickly. Like Jasta, Devlin and Cade, he's got a martial arts background, but unlike those three who's skill is raw and imposing, Milo's like...a calm river current more then a tsunami. That's scary. Guys like him, Tommy, Finesse and Dan Ripley are a sign of the way the sport is changing as well. They're all big, physical guys that move like crusierweights. Seeing them do the stuff they do is amazing. I mean, Ripley's what? 6'6"? 240...245lbs? And he's doing Guillotine Legdrops from the top rope halfway across the ring. Finesse is damn near 300lbs and he's doing springboard clotheslines. Nothing like how it was when I was their age. But of that whole crop, I think Milo's got the most untapped potential, because he's still not content with being where he is presently in his skill.
DN: You said you were recently at Dru Nedermeyer's Monster's Den Gym. What's the experience like?
Different. I mean, when I cam up you had to work out in seedy little dives or the weight rooms of whatever venue you were working. But these days there's gyms all over the place. I think it's great because it gives more availability to those out there who do want to become Pro-Wrestlers, or Mixed Martial Artists. That's where Dru's gym is different, because it's "Monster's Den Combat Sports". He's opened a place that caters to the entire gambit of combat sports. A place where you can see guys training to be Pro-Wrestlers training side by side with guys looking to become Mixed Martial Artists. So in a way, he's literally creating a brand new style of fighter. One who can transition to both sports flawlessly. And the gym itself is incredible. State of the art equipment all over the place. A full size Wrestling Ring, Boxing Ring AND Octagon. If my boys ever decide to follow in Daddy's footsteps, I know where I'll be sending them.
DN: So where are things head for Cody Black? Rumblings around the net say that you may have wrestled your last match.
I won't go that far, but I will say I'm nearing that match. There comes a time where you have to step back and look at where you've been, where you are, and where you're headed. I'll be 39 in 2010. When I wrestled my 1st match I'd just turned 24. 15 years is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time, bro. And I always said from the moment I shook my addiction that I would not be that wrestler still competing at 40 just to cling on to the glory days. I've had a great career. Met a lot of people along the way. I've been as high as success can take you and been at rock bottom. More then a lot of these young guys will ever have. Am I done yet? No. But will I be soon? Yes. I wanna pass on my knowledge to the next generation...or at least the ones not so full of themselves that they think they don't need it. There's a few guys I wanna face before I call it career as well. One more match with Jasta. One more match with Charles. One more match with Ripley. A match against Simon Fierhart. A couple other guys as well. But...I can say as I sit here right now that 2010 will more then likely be the fairwell tour of "The King Of Rock."
DN: And it'd be the fairwell of a storied and memorable career. We want to thank you again for taking this time to speak to us.
My pleasure.